and you also had the experience at one point of having your phone tapped by the fbi. >> it was a home phone. >> once the director of the aclu, director of the washington, d.c., we talked about the petraeus scandal, what had gone on there and the fbi investigating that whole thing. when you say that unfold, there were a lot of questions about whether the fbi had gone too far, in terms of what it did. what was your take on that from the civil liberties point of view. >> well, i think it underscored what i think this is a very serious problem i think we have to deal with. our e-mails are not protected. we all think our own information is protected from the government and at least they need a warrant. but the fact is, the supreme court said a long time ago that if your records are in somebody else's possession, at that time, they were talking about bank records. but if your e-mails are at google or yahoo or wherever, in the cloud somewhere, and they don't have to get a warrant. they just go to the company and say give us the records and most of the times the companies do give the records.